$700 BILLION

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$700 BILLION

Post  ExoticWhiteMan on Tue Sep 30, 2008 6:06 pm

So, I was surprised when Bush announced a plan to basically hand over $700,000,000,000 to failing financial institutions. Even more surprising is the fact that the democrats are its largest supporters. 140 dems and 65 repubs voted aye, while 95 dems and 133 repubs voted nay. It only failed by 13 votes, and if 13 more voted aye, then companies who prey on people who don't spend above their means will be rewarded for giving out loans to people who couldn't handle them. This article: <http://www.cnn.com/2008/LIVING/personal/09/25/money.pushers/index.html?iref=newssearch> gives an example of lenders greedily seeking to suck the life out of people's savings. If the bailout is passed, these companies will be rewarded for being greedy and will resume their predatory operations.

Although businesses may not expand so easily if these companies stop lending for awhile, I think it will be worth it for the economy. Showing the companies that taking such risk is not supported by us will make them seriously reconsider lending to vulnerable Americans, lest the companies destroy themselves when the borrowers can't repay. We Americans, undoubtedly, have fallen into the creditor's hands too easily and have eagerly lived our lives above our means, buying many things that we don't need while racking up the debt. Some kind of regulation needs to start happening, so that people who want a massive loan but don't have much income don't walk into the jaws of lenders, who are eager to take their money. If Americans can't make smart borrowing decisions, then the options available to them need to be hugely cut down in size.

I'm not an expert with this stuff, and the last paragraph is from stuff I've read on CNN and Fox. It seems clear, though, that rewarding these companies will only encourage more of the same abuse, unless regulations are seriously stepped up, which is unlikely, considering the government's inability to act effectively. However, we Americans must let the government know that we want these companies to burn to the ground and disappear from Wall Street, or stop being such terrible usurers. If our Congress, after our loud and overwhelming objections, should bail these companies out, we have to take action and vote them out of office. Too many people have been kicked out of homes they couldn't afford for our Congress to condone this behavior. If you're gonna vote, please, for the sake of the huge number of people who don't borrow wisely, Google the names of people in your state who voted for this bailout, and get them out of office.

This situation does kind of present a dilemma. The dems largely voted for the bailout, so they should be kicked out. But then, repubs don't support regulation, so they might not solve the problem and only leave the companies to learn their own lessons (yeah right). I guess, for now, voting out the bailout supporters is the best action to take, and make later decisions based on who does the right thing to force responsible, moral lending practices. Just the fact that the bailout helps no one who lost their homes warrants outrage against our Congress and President. The only hard choice to make when voting, then, if the bailout is as corrupt and stupid as I think, is picking our next President, since both candidates supported the bailout. If the debates keep going the way they have, though, the decision will be obvious.
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NJ REPRESENTATIVES' VOTES

Post  ExoticWhiteMan on Tue Sep 30, 2008 6:11 pm

The following voted aye for the bailout, and should be voted the hell out:
Rob Andrews
Rush Holt
Frank Pallone
Albio Sires
Mike Ferguson
Jim Saxton

The following voted nay for the bailout, and should be voted for, regardless of party:
Bill Pascrell
Donald Payne
Steve Rothman
Rodney Frelingbuysen
Scott Garrett
Chris Smith
Frank LoBiondo
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Re: $700 BILLION

Post  Church1ll on Tue Sep 30, 2008 7:08 pm

Here's my personal opinion of the bailout plan:

If passed, the bailout gives 700 billion dollars of taxpayer money to corporations who made absolutely terrible mistakes. The biggest insurance, bank, and mortgage corporations have suddenly gone down the tubes and government is deciding the best course of action is to rescue them. This has a snowball effect that I'm amazed the government hasn't thought of (or anyone who voted "aye" or "yay" or some other word other than a simple "yes"): now that it's official the government will do anything to save these massive corporations, including sacrifice valuable taxpayer money that should go toward something useful like oh say education, other massive corporations are now going to take increasingly large and rather dangerous risks thinking that the government will simply bail them out if they mess up. This means that other major corporations are now in serious danger unless an actual solution comes around that doesn't involve rewarding the bastards responsible for their companies tanking and punishing the taxpayer who has nothing to do with the faults of these companies. The bailout plan may be a decent idea in the very short term, but in the long run it does nothing more than prolong and possibly increase the problem. I read somewhere that the best course of action is to actually let these corporations go bankrupt, thus causing the ones responsible to suffer (like they should) and the now bankrupt company to be split amongst the people interested (which may or may not be a great thing). Now this is actually a decent idea, but it doesn't have much of a short term effect, as it works more effectively in the long run. Maybe I'm backwards...I don't know and I don't really care. All I have to say is that the bailout is a terrible thing as it punishes the very people who are not responsible: the taxpayers.
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Senate's up next

Post  ExoticWhiteMan on Wed Oct 01, 2008 4:32 pm

The Senate votes tonight on the bailout plan. Certain measures, like upping the bank insurance to $250K from $100K and adding mental illness treatment to health insurance plans are intended to sway house republicans to vote for the bill. Interestingly, these measures are displeasing democrats, and with luck, few republicans will like it and many democrats will turn against it. Needless to say, tomorrow, Google the vote for the bailout and know what your state senators voted for. The ones who support it deserve to be exiled, but the least we can do is vote them out of office.
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Re: $700 BILLION

Post  Gustavus_Adolfus on Mon Oct 06, 2008 9:29 am

Here is what I have to say on the topic.

The bailout IS NEEDED. Not to say that I DESPISE corporate America because i believe that big business is raping our democracy, but we cannot allow these institutions to just cease existing. If they are not bailed out and do hit the shitter everyone is going to pay. Our GDP will significantly drop, and billions of dollars will disappear, not to mention that smaller businesses will not be able to get credit and will also fail. These banks and whatnot are needed for credit by EVERYONE and although I would like to see those big fat corporate pigs get what they deserve, we cannot afford it on these terms.

The thing that just really boils my blood is corporate scandal and greed. To go back to 9/11 and with the fall of Enron... their corporate executives left with the pensions of all the workers approx 40 million dollars. Now this was illegal and the government being as fair and gracious as its been fined them....5 million dollars....

Now let me do the math 40-5=THIRTY FIVE MILLION DOLLARS THEY GET TO KEEP BECAUSE THEY COMMITTED A CRIME!!!!!

I believe that if a company goes under the CEO and other executives should be fined and loose ALL OF THEIR GAINS....not layoff all the workers while they leave with a shitload of money. By allowing things like this to happen we are only supporting the collapse of the working American class while those who can make away with all the money.

BULLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL
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Lehman!

Post  ExoticWhiteMan on Mon Oct 06, 2008 7:19 pm

Just like Lehman brothers. Congress is holding hearings now, because lots of their executives got massive bonuses under their "no penalty for failure" clause in their contracts. They got these huge bonuses while asking the fed for help.....wtf......although the democrats were the substantially larger supporters in bailing out these corrupt ceo's, they may have my vote instead of McCain. Although Obama has pretty much no experience (two years as a senator is something, but give me a fucking break) the fact that he'll regulate these things might make him a better choice. McCain, I'd imagine, would let these executives continue skimming off tens of millions for themselves, millions that could be invested back into communities and benefits rather than lavish, obese lifestyles. Another thing to consider....notice the falling gas prices? A guy I work with, the traffic engineer, said they dip every four years for the election, so the GOP doesn't lose badly. Just a thought, and although big business empowers this country, letting it run wild just sucks for people who don't run them. Everyone in this country is too fucking stupid to control their spending, and big businesses are happy to put them in the hole for an extra buck. If Obama can force responsibility with credit onto us through regulation, I'd be more than happy. No matter how well you handle other countries, not having a solid economy (not something bloated, floating above a pit of debt without a net) will make you a laughing stock.
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Re: $700 BILLION

Post  Gustavus_Adolfus on Tue Oct 07, 2008 4:39 pm

yes, but even o bama supports the bailout....we will deal with the greedy corporate scumbags later on, for the time being we must preserve what our economy is.
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Insight on the crisis

Post  ExoticWhiteMan on Wed Oct 08, 2008 10:49 am

http://www.minyanville.com/articles/sox-bks-spx-hgx-indices-fed/index/a/19378/from/yahoo
http://www.pressofatlanticcity.com/145/story/279002.html

I found some good, smart information on what's happening to our economy. The first site is something I randomly found from Google, and the second site is a press of ac editorial that I thought offered some great, non-partisan clarity. They might sound boring, but if anything, at least check out their conclusions, and you can see that Obama's attacks on deregulation and attempts to place blame for this crisis are playing on everyone's basic misunderstanding of how the crisis came about. As an example from the press article, Feddie and Frannie Mac had lots of oversight from the government, and the government encouraged their dangerous practices. Def check this stuff out.

Btw, I heard on the radio this morning, that Iceland's going bankrupt (yeah, the whole country) and Russia's market dropped 14% seconds after it opened, so they're closing it for the week.
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Re: $700 BILLION

Post  Church1ll on Wed Oct 08, 2008 2:43 pm

On the gas prices, yea when I worked at Sunoco that's exactly what I was told: gas prices always fall near election time so the GOP seems like their doing a better job. Naturally enough people in the country think so too.

Anyway, does anyone notice that if anything bad happens to our country, the rest of the world seems to suffer for it too, whereas if the rest of the world goes down the shitter, we'll prosper by offering to buy up items for cheap?

Just a thought.

Also, after this AIG thing, I really can't support the bailout anymore. What they need to do is put the execs in prison without bail and then put new people in power who can actually handle money. Obviously this isn't perfect because money is the key to corruption, but it's seriously better than handing the execs massive checks of taxpayer money, patting them on the head, and telling them "it's ok I'll cover the bill." It's clear they don't give a flying shit for you, me, or anyone else in this world for them to simply take that money and spend it on themselves when it was meant to get the companies back on their feet.
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Re: $700 BILLION

Post  Gustavus_Adolfus on Tue Oct 28, 2008 8:19 am

i wish we could just throw them into jail....only problem is that theyve accumulated so much money they can hire hundreds of lawyers and tie up courts for the rest of their lives
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Re: $700 BILLION

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